(warning for discourse discussion and sensitive topics like n*nc*n, inc*st, murder, gore, p*dophilia, etc.)

before reading, i want to make something clear: i do not label myself when it comes to fiction discourse. do not put a label on me. ik i have opinions that could be labeled, but group labels regarding fiction discourse are too broad and i dislike it. labels cause more divisiveness and confusion that i don't want.

i intended to not post about internet drama since taking my break, but taking a break has ironically made me want to comment on it more because i am noticing new issues.

in all honesty, after reflecting on it during my time off from social media, i'm not sure why my art and ideas are considered less problematic than others. i sexualize fictional murderers and find their gory acts of murder hot. i find it attractive that they get a thrill from killing, which is (usually) a n*nconsensual activity... i had never really thought about it like that before, and people do not acknowledge that aspect of it. i'm starting to think the only reason my art is "acceptable" and other gross things in art aren't is because we are more numb to violence compared to other problematic topics (although in my opinion they all fall under the same umbrella). but i think we should stop judging based on the subject, and start basing our opinions on how the subject is handled and the reasons for why that art exists. (while i say we judge art, i do not think we should censor any art by law unless it purposefully harms a real person or incites real world violence/hate. no matter if something is insensitive or not, while that person should probably expect social consequences to some degree (whether deserving or not), they should not be arrested for something imaginary. don’t get me wrong though, ive got limits too. there are some types of art that i find to be extremely insensitive, but i cannot support punishing them by law. plus, censorship is an incredibly slippery slope. words can be bent to censor the things that you support too, even if you think the concept of censorship is in your favor.)

i don't really think it's wrong to say all of this. i have figured out that it is a bit hypocritical, but i have also figured out why those distinctions between some problematic content and other problematic content were made. because we are not numb to certain topics like we are with violence. but i'm confused... if it is ok for us to enjoy murderers (sometimes even perverted murderers) and gore without enjoying it in reality, i'm not sure why other talked-about “problematic topics” are forbidden and treated with a different logic.

i don't mean to start any intense discussions. i am just noticing something strange when i look at all the arguments about problematic media from afar. i suppose the distinction between different subjects is an emotional thing, but again....... let's focus on the way subjects are handled, rather than the subjects themselves. and let's consider the context the person is creating their art from. even then, there's not really a hard and fast rule to explain why someone wants to make the art that they make... and i'm of the opinion that an artist/writer shouldn't have to justify/explain their art to you, as it is usually deeply personal or even unexplainable.

and another gripe. ive noticed over the years how people subtly (and not so subtly) go past their own rules and draw some things that are borderline “against their morals,” but since it is not explicitly said to be that bad thing (whatever that may be), it is alright despite being the same kinda premise. they also often treat others’ art as weird, while drawing weird things themselves. to many people, it is a matter of wording rather than being honest about the subjects and intents. i see many people drawing what looks to be sexual harassment or manipulation in a relationship but not wanting to call it that (for example, drawing an obviously horny character with an obviously uncomfortable character, or drawing an evil character with their uncertain partner. you’d be surprised at the ways people maneuver around calling it what it is: problematic). many are attracted to characters who get off to putting others in uncomfortable situations, because they like the dangerous aspect. this is inherently problematic in a way, so just admit to what it is and label it properly. i do not like the hypocrisy. it is fine, normal, and encouraged to have boundaries... but don't claim you hate someone for drawing something when you are nearly into the same thing. not to mention, boundaries (when it comes to art) are supposed to be personal, but it has become an “objective” thing to people. for instance, take people who see sexualizing fictional cannibalism as an objectively immoral thing. many of my friends are into that, but i have seen people equate it to sexualizing serial killers/cannibals irl, such as jeffrey dahmer. if we can say "no, i don't support it irl" to that, why can the same logic not be used for other awful topics. do you see the hypocrisy like i do? i hope it's becoming a bit clearer to you as you read. in all honesty, i see similarities between many of these arguments and the "violent games cause school sh**tings" argument. while school sh**tings are a very serious matter and i don't want to make light of them by including them in a post about fiction, let me explain it. when someone shoots up a school, playing violent video games could be a factor. but there are other factors as well, such as age, mental vulnerability, mental illness, societal values/factors, upbringing, miscellaneous mental factors that can't be explained by mental illness, and the people they surround themselves with. i think a similar logic can be applied to people consuming fiction with problematic elements in it. if someone is going to commit a horrible act and the art/piece of media they saw influenced them, there were other factors involved. this is the exact reason i believe in the power of warnings and TEACHING CHILDREN not to bypass them. there is a horrifying trend of teens on twitter (and probably other sites that i'm not aware of) bypassing warnings for adult media just so they can make themselves feel upset. this isn't healthy behavior. kids should not be exposing themselves to inappropriate material just to fight/argue/callout/whatever. adults should never encourage this behavior to begin with either (i think it is creepy that so many adults befriend children in fandoms anyway, but that's another story). speaking of warnings... another problem with drawing something almost blatantly problematic and then not labeling it as such is a way for vulnerable people to get easier access to it, with no warning signaling that it is obviously wrong irl to boot.

then, there are those who pick and choose which people are problematic and who aren't, mostly based on who they like and who they don't (it is the same with pieces of media, subjects to portray, etc.). they will come up with excuses for who they like (often more well-known or popular creators/people. for example: neil gaiman, who shares many of the same beliefs that i am stating here), and put down anyone they dislike for the same reasons (often smaller, more "targetable" creators/people). because of this, im confident in saying that many people involved in this discourse have a flimsy moral code, if they truly believe what they say…

i see people in denial that their favs are into problematic things (or are at least neutral towards problematic things), in denial that their fav characters have done inexcusable things, in denial that they are sexually into some potentially problematic things by calling it something else or beating around the bush (in fiction only), in denial that their logic doesn't make complete sense when it comes to fiction vs reality (and listen closely: FICTION DOES AFFECT REALITY. i am not arguing against that whatsoever. i am arguing that it affects reality in ways different to what many people have been saying lately). i encourage everyone to think more critically about the logic you are using. if you are uncomfortable with these thoughts, that is normal. questioning things leads to being uncomfortable. in the end, there is no need to change your beliefs and there is no need to label something with controversial terms (especially if it wasn’t actually your intent), but at least do not make others’ lives harder over it. at least think about it for a bit. do not let biases cloud your observations and always be willing to question your beliefs. this is what i have been trying to do lately.

overall, this is not about what you can and can't like, or what you are and aren't comfortable with. It's about hypocrisy, the slippery slope of censorship, and a lack of transparency with the topics you are tackling or enjoy.

here are some counterarguments i'd like to tackle:

• What if someone romanticizes the topic they're depicting?

i haven't seen many people define what romanticization truly is. some people define it as sexualizing the topic, some people define it as depicting the topic in a drawing or writing at all, some people define it as using it to groom others. in my opinion, the only way we can know if someone has bad intentions is if we have evidence that they're showing it to people who shouldn't see it. what i mean is, a vibe that can seem like "romanticization" can be integral to the mood or purpose of the art, such as story. this is especially true if it is a vent piece, where feelings of "romanticization" often come with trauma. while depicting a taboo subject as good is obviously... bad, i think it is much more complicated than that when it comes to fiction (and fiction ONLY. i do not support involving real people in this, whether through talking to them about it or depicting those people in your own art). not to mention, the definition and degree of "romanticization" is subjective in certain ways. i recommend asking your therapist what they'd define romanticization as. it might be an informative topic.

here's an example of "romanticization" used effectively: lolita (the book. NOT THE MOVIES). it is written from the perspective of a pervert, so of course he'll romanticize his situation. but it should be obvious to the reader that this is an unreliable narrator.

• What if someone sexualizes a real child through their drawing or writing? Isn't censorship justified then?

at that point, it is not "just a drawing," and i firmly stand by that. so yes, censorship is justified. in fact, it is already illegal. i also believe sexualizing realistic looking children - fictional or not - is wrong, but someone cannot get arrested for that much (i'm pretty sure) since that child is not technically real. i kind of wish there was a rule against this, but it is ultimately subjective what "realistic" even means... but someone can certainly get arrested for an nsfw artistic depiction of a REAL child or using a real child as reference. that is pedophilia, 100%. i support censorship in that case. i also support censoring inappropriate drawings of someone without their permission, especially if it involves a taboo topic.

• What if someone draws something extremely insensitive?

neil gaiman once said something along the lines of "someone's insensitive could be someone else's art." i agree with this, but i also believe it can go too far. however, my thought towards this is similar to free speech in general. they are free to draw what they want and not get legally punished, but they should expect possible social consequences as well as getting their art removed. after all, each website has different rules towards these things. if art/writing directly calls for real world violence though, i believe it should be censored for people's safety and well-being.

• How can we even know if someone supports the actions depicted in their art?

it's impossible to know since anyone can lie on the internet, but the same can be said for people who are vehemently against portraying problematic/insensitive things in art as well. they can preach all they want, but we don't know what they are doing behind the scenes. i've seen proshippers be called out for pedophilia, i've seen anti-proshippers be called out for pedophilia (as well as drawing problematic things in secret), i've seen people unaware of the discourse be called out for pedophilia. anyone can support anything in secret and say otherwise in public.

i digress though. i generally assume someone does not support what they draw if it is problematic since i love gory art but hate irl gore, but i am always looking out for red flags with anyone online so i stay safe. and remember, everyone has different life experiences, different brains, and different reasons for making what they make. i would say drawing what they support is one of the least common reasons. think about people who draw the most gruesome murder they can think of, do you think they are drawing it in order to support it? think of kikuo's obscure comic depicting r*pe between two underage characters. he clearly wrote it as a vent piece just as all of his music is, but people called him out on "supporting illegal activities."

• What if someone doesn't tag their art/writing properly or not at all?

well, i don't like that. but they shouldn't be legally punished for it. should probably be reprimanded a bit and then hope they fix their mistake. there's also those cases where people have a very niche audience anyway and feel like they don't have to put tags on all of their posts. i would still recommend using tags in those cases though (unless you plan on keeping your account locked).

• Isn't it fucked up that people would have thoughts about these subjects in the first place?

some people are born with more morbid curiosity than others and want to explore it through fiction, rather than experiencing it in real life or witnessing it. some people have trauma (or at least specific life experiences... or maybe their brains are just wired differently) that make them fixate on certain topics. some people have intense intrusive thoughts or thoughts brought on by fear that they need to let out. whatever the case may be, i think expressing those thoughts healthily is very much possible. if these thoughts start to impede on your actual beliefs or life in general, then you should stop immediately and reflect (and tell your therapist if it persists). there are plenty of studies about this out there. i don't have these studies on hand, but i'm sure you can find them or find someone who has them. it is actually very common for AFAB people to have fantasies about r*pe, because they wish to have control over a scenario where they would be in pain. it stems from fear and can be very cathartic to imagine (as long as it isn't interrupting your life or everyday thoughts).

• Isn't is pretty easy for kids or vulnerable people to find problematic art/writing? Isn't that dangerous?

it's dangerous if handled incorrectly. this is why i keep bringing up warnings and tags (and avoiding putting your nsfw content in main tags). spoilering, cropping, and censoring are also good ideas. this is also why i want to strongly encourage people (minors especially) to STOP bypassing uncomfortable tags just to upset yourself or start a conflict. i'm sure there are also ways to prevent your art from showing up on google searches... probably. i'll have to look into it. that'd also be a great idea. by the way... if this point is something you did ask, that may be a good sign to you that QRTing/screenshotting problematic or insensitive art just to make fun of it is NOT a good idea. you are contributing to the possibility of children or vulnerable people seeing it.

• Fiction affects reality. Fiction does not exist in a vacuum.

i agree. you can agree with my ideas here while still believing fiction affects reality. this is why responsibility and self-reflection is important, because the possible danger of problematic art is dependent on how we handle it.

• If someone indulges in problematic fiction, that could worsen their mental state.

it could. please see my points about self-reflection and therapy.

• What if someone forces problematic fiction on me that I don't want to see?

tell them to stop. that's your first step. if they don't listen, block them. no funny business in between. stand up for yourself. i don't believe in censorship of strictly fictional content and i believe there are valid reasons to depict taboo subjects in art, but i believe forcing it on someone with no warning or permission is awful.

• I was groomed by someone who made problematic art/writing. How do I know others aren't doing the same?

i was groomed by anti-problematic people almost exclusively, as well as one problematic creator. please keep in mind that anyone can be a groomer, and they will use absolutely anything to get what they want. not just problematic content, but "safe" content as well. if you are a minor, i'd be very weary of any adult that talks to you online, "safe" or not (hopefully no minors are on my page too often though). please also keep in mind that adults encouraging minors to harass others is a form of conditioning (i'm not going to use the word "grooming" because i don't want to water down the term).

• So all websites should just let any content go?

websites are allowed to have individual rules. that's that. for instance, newgrounds doesn't allow art of l*li or sh*ta characters. that is fine, because that is their individual rule to enforce. i don't believe every site on the internet should allow everything. i just don't believe people should be punished legally for fictional content that doesn't directly incite violence.

• So I should befriend people I'm uncomfortable with/afraid of?

if you do not like any kind of problematic content or topics, don't force yourself to befriend people who are into it. i would recommend not cutting off a friendship just because of what your friend is silently into (unless you are super duper uncomfortable with it), since they probably never shoved it in your face. it is possible to talk about other things and avoid those topics, especially if your friend is respectful of your boundaries (which they hopefully are).

• What if someone changes canon to make something fucked up? Won't that ruin it for others? And what if someone changes something previously fucked up to something "wholesome"? Isn't that contradictory or disrespects the original intent?

you can avoid their content by blocking them or muting keywords/tags. also, keep in mind, fictional characters can become blank slates for the artist to change in whatever way they like. interpretation is the purpose of art.

for example: i saw someone online who shipped gwen and hobie after seeing spiderverse. hobie's age is not confirmed, so they interpreted hobie as a teenager. after their friends harassed them because they interpreted hobie as an adult, the person made a public apology and said they'd no longer ship it. i believe they have every right to ship it if they see a good dynamic. even if hobie was confirmed to be an adult later, this person's original impression was that hobie is a teenager, so they clearly aren't enjoying the ship for reasons such as "grooming" or "taboo," so i believe their friends' logic should allow that ship rather than condemn it... fictional characters are not real, so you can simply change them to make something that you are more comfortable with.

now, if you take something fucked up like an abusive ship and turn it into something healthy, you could also be called out for this, ironically. i'm a little confused on the intent of this, but maybe they wanted to see a happy ending or saw potential in their dynamic besides their flaws/mistreatment of each other. i do not consider it romanticization, but rather just another interpretation. of course, just like everything else in this post, there are always exceptions and these situations should be judged individually.

• Since people have the right to abuse fictional characters, I should have the right to show my disgust with my words.

we should prioritize the well-being of real people over fictional characters. if you are sending death threats or unnecessary insults, i'd encourage you to reflect on your priorities. i understand many people believe that defending fictional characters is the same as defending the safety of real people, but that is not normally the case... please skim through my post again if you still believe this. that being said... you do have the right to express your disgust. but i wouldn't recommend it if it is cruel, unnecessary, or out of place. let's focus on the creations that we love, rather than focusing so much on our hate.

• If your coworkers or family would disapprove of what you make, it shouldn't be made.

i've seen this argument a surprising amount of times... we have things we keep private from many different people. i've never told my family or friends i love fictional gore because they'd be confused by it. just because someone would be uncomfortable with or confused by something you are into doesn't mean it is objectively wrong (in fiction). it just means that, once again, people are different and different situations call for different approaches.

(plus, there’s no guarantee someone’s family or coworkers will disapprove of what they make. open-minded people are out there.)

TLDR::: i believe: people are hypocritical about which problematic topics are ok to draw/write for and which are not;; there is a widespread "it's fine if i do it, but not if you do it" mentality;; someone should not be punished/censored by law for something that involves no real people at all. i have limits and believe some art is insensitive, but legalizing censorship to that degree is something i will not support;; warnings/tags are extremely important, so that people who would be especially influenced by problematic themes in media don't have easy access to it.

please do not directly cite this post for your arguments about fiction. i do not want to get myself involved in any arguments. i am only stating all of this so people uncomfortable with my opinions can keep away or block me.